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professed　teachers　and　who　never　had　a　single　disciple　in　that



branch　of　knowledge　which　he　wishes　him　to　acquire…would　not　such



conduct　be　the　height　of　folly？



　　Any。　Yes；　by　Zeus；　and　of　ignorance　too。



　　Soc。　Very　good。　And　now　you　are　in　a　position　to　advise　with　me



about　my　friend　Meno。　He　has　been　telling　me；　Anytus；　that　he



desires　to　attain　that　kind　of　wisdom　and…virtue　by　which　men　order



the　state　or　the　house；　and　honour　their　parents；　and　know　when　to



receive　and　when　to　send　away　citizens　and　strangers；　as　a　good　man



should。　Now；　to　whom　should　he　go　in　order　that　he　may　learn　this



virtue？　Does　not　the　previous　argument　imply　clearly　that　we　should



send　him　to　those　who　profess　and　avouch　that　they　are　the　common



teachers　of　all　Hellas；　and　are　ready　to　impart　instruction　to　any　one



who　likes；　at　a　fixed　price？



　　Any。　Whom　do　you　mean；　Socrates？



　　Soc。　You　surely　know；　do　you　not；　Anytus；　that　these　are　the



people　whom　mankind　call　Sophists？



　　Any。　By　Heracles；　Socrates；　forbear！　I　only　hope　that　no　friend　or



kinsman　or　acquaintance　of　mine；　whether　citizen　or　stranger；　will



ever　be　so　mad　as　to　allow　himself　to　be　corrupted　by　them；　for　they



are　a　manifest　pest　and　corrupting　influences　to　those　who　have　to



do　with　them。



　　Soc。　What；　Anytus？　Of　all　the　people　who　profess　that　they　know



how　to　do　men　good；　do　you　mean　to　say　that　these　are　the　only　ones



who　not　only　do　them　no　good；　but　positively　corrupt　those　who　are



entrusted　to　them；　and　in　return　for　this　disservice　have　the　face



to　demand　money？　Indeed；　I　cannot　believe　you；　for　I　know　of　a



single　man；　Protagoras；　who　made　more　out　of　his　craft　than　the



illustrious　Pheidias；　who　created　such　noble　works；　or　any　ten　other



statuaries。　How　could　that　A　mender　of　old　shoes；　or　patcher　up　of



clothes；　who　made　the　shoes　or　clothes　worse　than　he　received　them；



could　not　have　remained　thirty　days　undetected；　and　would　very　soon



have　starved；　whereas　during　more　than　forty　years；　Protagoras　was



corrupting　all　Hellas；　and　sending　his　disciples　from　him　worse　than



he　received　them；　and　he　was　never　found　out。　For；　if　I　am　not



mistaken；…he　was　about　seventy　years　old　at　his　death；　forty　of



which　were　spent　in　the　practice　of　his　profession；　and　during　all



that　time　he　had　a　good　reputation；　which　to　this　day　he　retains：



and　not　only　Protagoras；　but　many　others　are　well　spoken　of；　some



who　lived　before　him；　and　others　who　are　still　living。　Now；　when　you



say　that　they　deceived　and　corrupted　the　youth；　are　they　to　be



supposed　to　have　corrupted　them　consciously　or　unconsciously？　Can



those　who　were　deemed　by　many　to　be　the　wisest　men　of　Hellas　have　been



out　of　their　minds？



　　Any。　Out　of　their　minds！　No；　Socrates；　the　young　men　who　gave



their　money　to　them；　were　out　of　their　minds；　and　their　relations



and　guardians　who　entrusted　their　youth　to　the　care　of　these　men



were　still　more　out　of　their　minds；　and　most　of　all；　the　cities　who



allowed　them　to　come　in；　and　did　not　drive　them　out；　citizen　and



stranger　alike。



　　Soc。　Has　any　of　the　Sophists　wronged　you；　Anytus？　What　makes　you



so　angry　with　them？



　　Any。　No；　indeed；　neither　I　nor　any　of　my　belongings　has　ever　had；



nor　would　I　suffer　them　to　have；　anything　to　do　with　them。



　　Soc。　Then　you　are　entirely　unacquainted　with　them？



　　Any。　And　I　have　no　wish　to　be　acquainted。



　　Soc。　Then；　my　dear　friend；　how　can　you　know　whether　a　thing　is



good　or　bad　of　which　you　are　wholly　ignorant？



　　Any。　Quite　well；　I　am　sure　that　I　know　what　manner　of　men　these　are；



whether　I　am　acquainted　with　them　or　not。



　　Soc。　You　must　be　a　diviner；　Anytus；　for　I　really　cannot　make　out；



judging　from　your　own　words；　how；　if　you　are　not　acquainted　with　them；



you　know　about　them。　But　I　am　not　enquiring　of　you　who　are　the



teachers　who　will　corrupt　Meno　（let　them　be；　if　you　please；　the



Sophists）；　I　only　ask　you　to　tell　him　who　there　is　in　this　great



city　who　will　teach　him　how　to　become　eminent　in　the　virtues　which　I



was　just；　now　describing。　He　is　the　friend　of　your　family；　and　you



will　oblige　him。



　　Any。　Why　do　you　not　tell　him　yourself？



　　Soc。　I　have　told　him　whom　I　supposed　to　be　the　teachers　of　these



things；　but　I　learn　from　you　that　I　am　utterly　at　fault；　and　I　dare



say　that　you　are　right。　And　now　I　wish　that　you；　on　your　part；　would



tell　me　to　whom　among　the　Athenians　he　should　go。　Whom　would　you　name？



　Any。　Why　single　out　individuals？　Any　Athenian　gentleman；　taken　at



random；　if　he　will　mind　him；　will　do　far　more；　good　to　him　than　the



Sophists。



　　Soc。　And　did　those　gentlemen　grow　of　themselves；　and　without



having　been　taught　by　any　one；　were　they　nevertheless　able　to　teach



others　that　which　they　had　never　learned　themselves？



　　Any。　I　imagine　that　they　learned　of　the　previous　generation　of



gentlemen。　Have　there　not　been　many　good　men　in　this　city？



　　Soc。　Yes；　certainly；　Anytus；　and　many　good　statesmen　also　there



always　have　been　and　there　are　still；　in　the　city　of　Athens。　But　the



question　is　whether　they　were　also　good　teachers　of　their　own



virtue；…not　whether　there　are；　or　have　been；　good　men　in　this　part



of　the　world；　but　whether　virtue　can　be　taught；　is　the　question



which　we　have　been　discussing。　Now；　do　we　mean　to　say　that　the　good



men　our　own　and　of　other　times　knew　how　to　impart　to　others　that



virtue　which　they　had　themselves；　or　is　virtue　a　thing　incapable　of



being　communicated　or　imparted　by　one　man　to　another？　That　is　the



question　which　I　and　Meno　have　been　arguing。　Look　at　the　matter　in



your　own　way：　Would　you　not　admit　that　Themistocles　was　a　good　man？



　　Any。　Certainly；　no　man　better。



　　Soc。　And　must　not　he　then　have　been　a　good　teacher；　if　any　man



ever　was　a　good　teacher；　of　his　own　virtue？



　　Any。　Yes　certainly；…if　he　wanted　to　be　so。



　　Soc。　But　would　he　not　have　wanted？　He　would；　at　any　rate；　have



desired　to　make　his　own　son　a　good　man　and　a　gentleman；　he　could　not



have　been　jealous　of　him；　or　have　intentionally　abstained　from



imparting　to　him　his　own　virtue。　Did　you　never　hear　that　he　made　his



son　Cleophantus　a　famous　horseman；　and　had　him　taught　to　stand　upright



on　horseback　and　hurl　a　javelin；　and　to　do　many　other　marvellous



things；　and　in　anything　which　could　be　learned　from　a　master　he　was



well　trained？　Have　you　not　heard　from　our　elders　of　him？



　　Any。　I　have。



　　Soc。　Then　no　one　could　say　that　his　son　showed　any　want　of　capacity？



　　Any。　Very　likely　not。



　　Soc。　But　did　any　one；　old　or　young；　ever　say　in　your　hearing　that



Cleophantus；　son　of　Themistocles；　was　a　wise　or　good　man；　as　his



father　was？



　　Any。　I　have　certainly　never　heard　any　one　say　so。



　　Soc。　And　if　virtue　could　have　been　taught；　would　his　father



Themistocles　have　sought　to　train　him　in　these　minor



accomplishments；　and　allowed　him　who；　as　you　must　remember；　was　his



own　son；　to　be　no　better　than　his　neighbours　in　those　qualities　in



which　he　himself　excelled？



　　Any。　Indeed；　indeed；　I　think　not。



　　Soc。　Here　was　a　teacher　of　virtue　whom　you　admit　to　be　among　the



best　men　of　the　past。　Let　us　take　another；…Aristides；　the　son　of



Lysimachus：　would　you　not　acknowledge　that　he　was　a　good　man？



　　Any。　To　be　sure　I　should。



　　Soc。　And　did　not　he　train　his　son　Lysimachus　better　than　any　other



Athenian　in　all　that　could　be　done　for　him　by　the　help　of　masters？　But



what　has　been　the　result？　Is　he　a　bit　better　than　any　other　mortal？　He



is　an　acquaintance　of　yours；　and　you　see　what　he　is　like。　There　is



Pericles；　again；　magnificent　in　his　wisdom；　and　he；　as　you　are



aware；　had　two　sons；　Paralus　and　Xanthippus。



　　Any。　I　know。



　　Soc。　And　you　know；　also；　that　he　taught　them　to　be　unrivalled



horsemen；　and　had　them　trained　in　music　and　gymnastics　and　all　sorts



of　arts…in　these　respects　they　were　on　a　level　with　the　best…and　had



he　no　wish　to　make　good　men　of　them？　Nay；　he　must　have　wished　it。



But　virtue；　as　I　suspect；　could　not　be　taught。　And　that　you　may　not



suppose　the　incompetent　teachers　to　be　only　the　meaner　sort　of



Athenians　and　few　in　number；　remember　again　that　Thucydides　had　two



sons；　Melesias　and　Stephanus；　whom；　besides　giving　them　a　good



education　in　other　things；　he　trained　in　wrestling；　and　they　were



the　best　wrestlers　in　Athens：　one　of　them　he　committed　to　the　care



of　Xanthias；　and　the　other　of　Eudorus；　who　had　the　reputation　of　being



the　most　celebrated　wrestlers　of　that　day。　Do　you　remember　them？



　　Any。　I　have　heard　of　them。



　　Soc。　Now；　can　there　be　a　doubt　that　Thucydides；　whose　children



were　taught　things　for　which　he　had　to　spend　money；　would　have



taught　them　to　be　good　men；　which　would　have　cost　him　nothing；　if



virtue　could　have　been　taught？　Will　you　reply　that　he　was　a　mean



man；　and　had　not　many　friends　among　the　Athenians　and　allies？　Nay；　but



he　was　of　a　great　family；　and　a　man　of　influence　at　Athens　and　in



all　Hellas；　and；　if　virtue　could　have　been　taught；　he　would　have　found



out　some　Athenian　or　foreigner　who　would　have　made　good　men　of　his



sons；　if　he　could　not　himself　spare　the　time　from　cares　of　state。　Once



more；　I　suspect；　friend　Anytus；　that　virtue　is　not　a　thing　which　can



be　taught？



　　Any。　Socrates；　I　think　that　you　are　too　ready　to　speak　evil　of



men：　and；　if　you　will　take　my　advice；　I　would　recommend　you　to　be



careful。　Perhaps　there　is　no　city　in　which　it　is　not　easier　to　do



men　harm　than　to　do　them　good；　and　this　is　certainly　the　case　at



Athens；　as　I　believe　that　you　know。



　　Soc。　O　Meno；　think　that　Anytus　is　in　a　rage。　And　he　may　well　be　in　a



rage；　for　he　thinks；　in　the　first　place；　that　I　am　defaming　these



gentlemen；　and　in　the　second　place；　he　is　of　opinion　that　he　is　one　of



them　himself。　But　some　day